Row 21045

Row ID: 21045 | Dataset Entry | Axioma AXP Content Repository

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> you are correct and your line of thinking is correct > > > you are correct to bang on. you are correct that the UTXO set already contains the relevant transactions.

I believe my assesment was correct, but I don't have intimate knowledge of the nuts and bolts of how things work, I only have a *mildly* technical overview.

So when Tom says you need to walk the chain of transactions to rebuild the wallet, I listen. Though I have not seen a good reason why my [bloom like filter suggestion](https://archive.ph/mJA3z#selection-2425.0-2441.95) could not work

Perhaps

1. You could not make a bloom filter specific enough to cover hundreds of billions of addresses (extreme adoption)

2. If you could it would be too large to be practical for mobile users

3. The cost to check **all** your **possible** transactions would be prohibitive on a mobile device.

Moving to even thinner ice than the usual, I think the above method wouldn't be able to 'find' multisigs unless they were marked in some way, or any non standard address.

Personally I see mundane day to day transactions happening on second layers, this would presumably keep the search space for possible outputs down to a manageable size for most users.

And in the future (if all else fails) the brute force method of downloading complete list of current addresses for each UTXO (low TB?) and generating the first billion wallet address ~32GB may well be practical and if all else fails paying someone to do it for you (which would you prefer to loose your wealth or privacy?) at scale I imagine it could be relatively cheap - walking the TB's of UTXO with sorted lists of 100's of users, by then it possibly could all fit in ram for a power user offering the *rebuild* service as a business.

> my question is for you and Tom: isn't it ultimately the local user's responsibility to know the addresses they care about?

I would say so, perhaps a wallet saves a snapshot of it's own UTXO's encrypted with the seed phrase in the cloud (storage perhaps provided by wallet) or just numbered list of what wallet addresses are 'live'

Though Tom seemed (at least partially) to be against this as he [argued one could have 2 *LIVE* wallets with the same seed](https://archive.ph/jkiSn#selection-3031.0-3045.225) and one wallet could not know what UTXO's the other wallet had spent (for me this does not seem to fit with the overwhelming use case of p2p cash)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If u/ThomasZander is correct and we **need** to keep all the Legacy Data to rebuild wallets from scratch (I may be misrepresenting him in this regard) this does not seem very scaleable to me.

FieldValue
text > you are correct and your line of thinking is correct > > > you are correct to bang on. you are correct that the UTXO set already contains the relevant transactions. I believe my assesment was correct, but I don't have intimate knowledge of the nuts and bolts of how things work, I only have a *mildly* technical overview. So when Tom says you need to walk the chain of transactions to rebuild the wallet, I listen. Though I have not seen a good reason why my [bloom like filter suggestion](http…
label r/btc
dataType comment
communityName r/btc
datetime 2024-05-21
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url_encoded Z0FBQUFBQm5Lak9QeEJSMGIxTzI3YkxMeUk0OW1YQl95UnpXMkpXYk1nM2dDaFNrVVJoelczLVVSMEdha21zdEl1bEtKOW14a1ROVTRid2ljNTBzblQ4ZVlWNFRValFZNWZzSXJfdzFnTzNMd25tZVNJUnNXV1ZGejU5VHI0N056MFI4LVZJOVp0UXBpYmhkQzFKOEdieHRPVHllMzhfTVgyNFBSNW5hOHpCa1R4XzBtMkZHZUlzQVQzak92OFJiVXg2a0haRE4xamRmM01uR1pGc0llQ1UtWkhGenhyc3Zkdz09

Raw Record

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  "text": "> you are correct and your line of thinking is correct\n>\n>\n> you are correct to bang on. you are correct that the UTXO set already contains the relevant transactions.\n\n\nI believe my assesment was correct, but I don't have intimate knowledge of the nuts and bolts of how things work, I only have a *mildly* technical overview.\n\n\nSo when Tom says you need to walk the chain of transactions to rebuild the wallet, I listen. Though I have not seen a good reason why my [bloom like filter suggestion](https://archive.ph/mJA3z#selection-2425.0-2441.95) could not work\n\n\nPerhaps\n\n1. You could not make a bloom filter specific enough to cover hundreds of billions of addresses (extreme adoption) \n\n2. If you could it would be too large to be practical for mobile users\n\n3. The cost to check **all** your **possible** transactions would be prohibitive on a mobile device.\n\n\nMoving to even thinner ice than the usual,  I  think the above method wouldn't be able to 'find' multisigs unless they were marked in some way, or any non standard address.\n\n\nPersonally I see mundane day to day transactions happening on second layers, this would presumably keep the search space for possible outputs down to a manageable size for most users.\n\n\nAnd in the future (if all else fails) the brute force method of downloading complete list of current addresses for each UTXO (low TB?) and generating the first billion wallet address ~32GB may well be practical and if all else fails paying someone to do it for you (which would you prefer to loose your wealth or privacy?) at scale I imagine it could be relatively cheap - walking the TB's of UTXO with sorted lists of 100's of users, by then it possibly could all fit in ram for a power user offering the *rebuild* service as a business.\n\n> my question is for you and Tom: isn't it ultimately the local user's responsibility to know the addresses they care about?\n\nI would say so, perhaps a wallet saves a snapshot of it's own UTXO's encrypted with the seed phrase in the cloud (storage perhaps provided by wallet) or just numbered list of what wallet addresses are 'live'\n\n\nThough Tom seemed (at least partially) to be against this as he [argued one could have 2 *LIVE* wallets with the same seed](https://archive.ph/jkiSn#selection-3031.0-3045.225) and one wallet could not know what UTXO's the other wallet had spent (for me this does not seem to fit with the overwhelming use case of p2p cash)\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\nIf  u/ThomasZander is correct and we **need** to keep all the Legacy Data to rebuild wallets from scratch (I may be misrepresenting him in this regard) this does not seem very scaleable to me.",
  "label": "r/btc",
  "dataType": "comment",
  "communityName": "r/btc",
  "datetime": "2024-05-21",
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}
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